Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: 76 el tigre 4000 (440)  (Read 574 times)

way back when

  • SnoPro
  • *****
  • Posts: 976
76 el tigre 4000 (440)
« on: November 20, 2021, 12:04:56 am »
will these run with a GPX ,Twister, TX etc. Free air hot stocker. What kind of HP are they ?



 

« Last Edit: November 20, 2021, 12:06:59 am by way back when »

Vintagesleds.com

  • Advertisement
  • ***

    catman since 72

    • Modified
    • ***
    • Posts: 25
    Re: 76 el tigre 4000 (440)
    « Reply #1 on: November 20, 2021, 12:51:55 am »
    '76 was the first year with Suzuki power. The 440 was not the top hp motor. (the 500 in the 5000 was, a claimed 60hp) If memory serves me, hp for the 440 was about 45. The 4000 El Tigre was only made in '76 & '77. The '76 was the only El Tigre ever made without a pulse charger exhaust (pipe). It came with a muffler can. Not really a performance unit.
    When a problem comes along...... you must whip it. Whip it good.

    way back when

    • SnoPro
    • *****
    • Posts: 976
    Re: 76 el tigre 4000 (440)
    « Reply #2 on: November 20, 2021, 02:38:28 am »
    thanks catman . A clean one is 4 sale local but you answered all my questions. I will pass not what I am after.

    SirSpamalot

    • SnoPro
    • *****
    • Posts: 3481
    Re: 76 el tigre 4000 (440)
    « Reply #3 on: November 22, 2021, 03:38:36 pm »
    I'll agree with most of this. The 4000 was meant to be about the hp of the old 1975 340 T7 Kawasaki base engine El-Tigre. Not a Z. ( Yeah the little oddball 340 quad plug trail motor in the base Tigger is a one year wonder that is often forgotten.) With the hot sleds you listed you are much better going with a 1975 Z as the Z was the true hot stock FA Cat. 4000/5000 '76 were more mellowed out trail sleds. Base 1975 340 Tigre trail sled was about 45hp. 1976 4000/440 Spirit was listed at 48. They did go to the pulse charger pipe for the 4000 for the 1977 model year, but the listed hp was the same.
    This was all part of Cats switch to the Suzuki Spirit engines and dropping RPM for better engine wear and reliability and less noise for the mid 70's. Actually the sleeper engine from Suzuki was in the 1975 Fury. That 440 was listed at 60hp and used the same chassis as a '75 Tigre, and the twin pipes off the 1975Z. But rare as hens teeth to find one in GRC today. 1975Z 340 I'll guess was maybe 50hp and I have been told the 440Z was 70.

    OK sorry I didn't mean to write a book. That will be later after I retire. HEHE. I have always wanted to stick a worked over 4000 engine in a 340 Jag leafer for giggles. Maybe someday...

    (1976 500cc was 55hp. Similar to engine used in Pantera that year.)
    I have one very special sled.
    I no longer claim to be omniscient because the rules are more like guidelines.
    Thank God I have more than one hobby.

    slowestsled

    • SnoPro
    • *****
    • Posts: 1740
    Re: 76 el tigre 4000 (440)
    « Reply #4 on: November 25, 2021, 01:16:37 am »
     Fury pipes are not the same as 75 Z pipes, - Not Even Close !!!!!!

    catman since 72

    • Modified
    • ***
    • Posts: 25
    Re: 76 el tigre 4000 (440)
    « Reply #5 on: November 25, 2021, 01:49:53 am »
    I'll agree with most of this. The 4000 was meant to be about the hp of the old 1975 340 T7 Kawasaki base engine El-Tigre. Not a Z. ( Yeah the little oddball 340 quad plug trail motor in the base Tigger is a one year wonder that is often forgotten.) With the hot sleds you listed you are much better going with a 1975 Z as the Z was the true hot stock FA Cat. 4000/5000 '76 were more mellowed out trail sleds. Base 1975 340 Tigre trail sled was about 45hp. 1976 4000/440 Spirit was listed at 48. They did go to the pulse charger pipe for the 4000 for the 1977 model year, but the listed hp was the same.
    This was all part of Cats switch to the Suzuki Spirit engines and dropping RPM for better engine wear and reliability and less noise for the mid 70's. Actually the sleeper engine from Suzuki was in the 1975 Fury. That 440 was listed at 60hp and used the same chassis as a '75 Tigre, and the twin pipes off the 1975Z. But rare as hens teeth to find one in GRC today. 1975Z 340 I'll guess was maybe 50hp and I have been told the 440Z was 70.

    OK sorry I didn't mean to write a book. That will be later after I retire. HEHE. I have always wanted to stick a worked over 4000 engine in a 340 Jag leafer for giggles. Maybe someday...

    (1976 500cc was 55hp. Similar to engine used in Pantera that year.)
    '76 500cc was 60hp El Tigre or Pantera.
    When a problem comes along...... you must whip it. Whip it good.

    SirSpamalot

    • SnoPro
    • *****
    • Posts: 3481
    Re: 76 el tigre 4000 (440)
    « Reply #6 on: November 25, 2021, 11:37:00 pm »
    Hey guys look. These are numbers straight out buyers guides of the day and factory literature. I grew up in that era. I didnít pull them out of my butt. The 500cc four port tigger and Pantera are 55hp. The 1978 to 1981 six port 500 is 62. Iíll accept their is some difference in the Fury vs Z pipes but the set up is similar.
    « Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 11:49:16 pm by SirSpamalot »
    I have one very special sled.
    I no longer claim to be omniscient because the rules are more like guidelines.
    Thank God I have more than one hobby.

    SirSpamalot

    • SnoPro
    • *****
    • Posts: 3481
    Re: 76 el tigre 4000 (440)
    « Reply #7 on: November 25, 2021, 11:38:20 pm »
    And yes I remember that dyno sheet add. Itís advertising. Not facts. When they went to the six port top end for 1978 El Tigre is when they got over the 60hp hurdle for the 500 FA engine.The   change in parts was listed in an article in A buyers guide in Race and Rally or Snow goer. I still have the magazine somewhere. But I still remember the conversation I had with the dealers at that time. The 5000 four port Tiger and Pantera put out the same power. But the Pantera has a different bearing set up on the crankcase than the El Tigre because of its special bulkhead and the way the clutch mounts.
    « Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 11:48:23 pm by SirSpamalot »
    I have one very special sled.
    I no longer claim to be omniscient because the rules are more like guidelines.
    Thank God I have more than one hobby.

    76merc650

    • Modified
    • ***
    • Posts: 37
    Re: 76 el tigre 4000 (440)
    « Reply #8 on: November 26, 2021, 06:55:38 pm »
    Lets answer the original question,part 1.Yes it will run with THE 340 GPX,and the 340 TX and the 340 twister,on trail rides.YOU may not be first at the gas stop,but you will be right in there.The 4000 was designed and intended to perform as a 340 and make 340 power.It is not competitive with 440s.Part 2,no it is not in the same ballpark as the factory super stockers, cat Zs ,TX starfires SRXs and the like.Part 3,it makes about 46-48 HP at low RPM 6800 I think and with that horrible can it is a wonder it moves any exhaust at all.It basically is the same engine that was in the panther and cheetah 4000s,withfree air fins added to the cyls and heads.A set of fury pipes does wonders for this little engine.speaking of the Fury it was built on the 74 tiger chassis using the cat steel skid frame modified to specs enginered by Suzuki to better transfer weight.Fury pipes and Z pipes are similar only in that they were painted black.The 4000 is a square bore and the 75Z has ashorter stroke and larger bore it spins much higher than the 4000.The 76 Z mod kit pipes are a better match to Fury pipes but it is a liquid motor thus not part of this free air comparison.
    they are a 340 that makes 250 power at altitude