Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: 1979 El Tigre 6000 running issue  (Read 386 times)

Joses

  • SnoPro
  • *****
  • Posts: 758
1979 El Tigre 6000 running issue
« on: October 13, 2021, 12:34:17 pm »
This has me baffled- The sled ran fine - my son grass dragged it. the next day it wouldn't start - no spark.
So we brought it home and I checked the manual and got some readings to check (stator, etc) - and all was good so I suspected CD box. I had a spare and put it on. Great- I now have spark again and it started and idled. But it would not rev up off of idle. So I removed and cleaned the carbs. Still will not rev. Checked everything over - fuel lines, air box, ect....no rev up. So I was thinking it was the CD box. I ordered a brand new one - it came in and I installed.....starts right up and idles but will not rev. It just bogs....has nothing off of idle.

What is the problem???  I'm stumped.  This is the 440 liquid - 1978 and 1979 are the same. What am I missing?  I believe this has the case reeds - so do I take the engine apart to check the reeds? Did something wreck them? 
Any advice is appreciated. I want to get this running for this winters riding....

thanks
joe
Just about the time you realize your father wasn't always wrong....you'll have a son who thinks you are !

Vintagesleds.com

  • Advertisement
  • ***

    big danno

    • SnoPro
    • *****
    • Posts: 778
    Re: 1979 El Tigre 6000 running issue
    « Reply #1 on: October 13, 2021, 01:05:53 pm »
    Try unplugging the main wire harness from the chassis to the motor at the motor, this should be a normally open system so should run like that. If it will rev and run like normal then I would look into the throttle safety switch and kill and key switch shorting to ground. Also adjust the throttle cable to the proper tension as per manual as this will affect the throttle safety switch.
    Only way to shut the machine down with the  harness disconnected will be to choke the machine or plug the harness back in. Make sure to have the track off the ground in case it revs out of control.
    Also look at the bushings that are in the throttle pin, if those are worn they will also mess with the safety switch.

    Joses

    • SnoPro
    • *****
    • Posts: 758
    Re: 1979 El Tigre 6000 running issue
    « Reply #2 on: October 13, 2021, 05:50:07 pm »
    Thanks Big Danno - this is my bad....I did do that but forgot to put it in my 1st post - sorry about that.......
    So -yea- we isolated the engine from the other items and it acted the same -

    Any ideas are welcome -

    thanks all

    Joe
    Just about the time you realize your father wasn't always wrong....you'll have a son who thinks you are !

    76z

    • SnoPro
    • *****
    • Posts: 2183
    Re: 1979 El Tigre 6000 running issue
    « Reply #3 on: October 13, 2021, 08:20:07 pm »
    Might be the exciter coil on your stator.

    1twisted

    • SnoPro
    • *****
    • Posts: 277
    Re: 1979 El Tigre 6000 running issue
    « Reply #4 on: October 13, 2021, 08:45:06 pm »
    Like 76Z said I’m betting you need a stator . I had a sled that did this started, right up idles fine can’t rev it up. Low speed windings good high speed windings bad.

    big danno

    • SnoPro
    • *****
    • Posts: 778
    Re: 1979 El Tigre 6000 running issue
    « Reply #5 on: October 13, 2021, 08:58:00 pm »
    Oh yeah sure make me type this all out for nothing... lol. No worries man, hope you get it up and running easily! Good luck!!

    76z

    • SnoPro
    • *****
    • Posts: 2183
    Re: 1979 El Tigre 6000 running issue
    « Reply #6 on: October 13, 2021, 11:00:58 pm »
    Years back I had a pair of 74 440 tigres and had in AC shop and they worked on it and said to come and get it as it was better. Picked up and did the same thing. Went home and took stator out of one and put in the other and it ran fine. Went and found  a good used one complete and put back together and bingo both ran excellent. I recommend not just replacing the exciter but find a good used one.

    Joses

    • SnoPro
    • *****
    • Posts: 758
    Re: 1979 El Tigre 6000 running issue
    « Reply #7 on: October 14, 2021, 12:03:22 pm »

    OK - this gives me a place to start. I will take a look. It's funny -I did a series of checks and I could swear that everything checked out fine in terms of the readings on my meter so I just moved along to something else.
    I believe I have a spare so when I get a chance I will swap them.
    Thanks everyone -

    Joe
    Just about the time you realize your father wasn't always wrong....you'll have a son who thinks you are !

    Brettm57

    • SnoPro
    • *****
    • Posts: 3426
    • You can't have too many toys....
    Re: 1979 El Tigre 6000 running issue
    « Reply #8 on: October 14, 2021, 01:29:14 pm »
    Try heating up the stator with a blow dryer and check the resistance while it's hot.  The reading will change some, but it shouldn't change much.  If I suspect a bad stator or coil and they check out good initially, I'll heat them up and check it again.  In fact I will leave my ohm meter hooked to the coils and watch it as I heat it up.  The résistance should slowly build, but not very much.  Sometimes the reading will fluctuate up and down as it's heating up, and that tells me it's bad.
    1971 634 Puma, 1972 340/440 Puma, 1977 Pantera, 1983 EL-JAGRE, 1980 Jag w/295 Wankel power, 2003 Z 570, 1967 Rupp A-Bone/MC90, 1984 MXK Mirage/Briggs Flathead-alky fueled

    Vics stuff

    • BS Hall Of Fame Member
    • ******
    • Posts: 4128
    • Go Big Or Go Home
    Re: 1979 El Tigre 6000 running issue
    « Reply #9 on: October 14, 2021, 05:11:42 pm »
    Try heating up the stator with a blow dryer and check the resistance while it's hot.  The reading will change some, but it shouldn't change much.  If I suspect a bad stator or coil and they check out good initially, I'll heat them up and check it again.  In fact I will leave my ohm meter hooked to the coils and watch it as I heat it up.  The résistance should slowly build, but not very much.  Sometimes the reading will fluctuate up and down as it's heating up, and that tells me it's bad.

    Brettm57   , That is a great tip for guys wanting to OHM out their stator coils.
     Vic

    73 el tigre

    • SnoPro
    • *****
    • Posts: 1143
    Re: 1979 El Tigre 6000 running issue
    « Reply #10 on: October 14, 2021, 11:56:50 pm »
    Probly is electrical. But most of the time its the opposite for the stator. Coils check cold look OK and somewhat run once motor comes up to temp is the failing point. Maybe a wire has come off one of the coils intermittent contact. Another easy reed check pull off the carb look down into the tunnel where the reeds are can see if their OK. Can even put a finger in and feel them up. The reeds on this motor work the low RPM rather than the higher ranges. A no spark issue original wouldnt be related to the reeds though

    Vics stuff

    • BS Hall Of Fame Member
    • ******
    • Posts: 4128
    • Go Big Or Go Home
    Re: 1979 El Tigre 6000 running issue
    « Reply #11 on: October 15, 2021, 12:29:25 am »
     As a old Cat guy , I would lean towards the stator. A guy could replace them with NOS parts but they would have to pay attention in the soldering of the wires back on. I have done this on these as race sleds with success . As mentioned it may be easier to find a good assy to install.
     Vic

    Joses

    • SnoPro
    • *****
    • Posts: 758
    Re: 1979 El Tigre 6000 running issue
    « Reply #12 on: October 15, 2021, 11:51:59 am »
    I do have a spare 6000 for parts - so I will probably start with using that. That is where I got my 1st CD box to try before buying a new replacement.

    I should  probably check it 1st before removing from the parts sled to save myself some agony in case it is bad too....

    Thanks guys - more to come-

    Joe
    Just about the time you realize your father wasn't always wrong....you'll have a son who thinks you are !