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Author Topic: No Rev 1969 Merc 220E  (Read 1662 times)

struggler

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No Rev 1969 Merc 220E
« on: March 20, 2020, 02:21:17 pm »
Circling back on this project.  I restored this machine, including the wiring harness.  It starts, lights work, but when you give it gas, it doesn't rev up enough to engage the clutch. It doesn't bog down. It can idle all day.

1) PSI > 120 in both cylinders on one pull
2) Good spark: new plugs
3) replaced fuel pump
4) replaced the old fuel lines
5) cleaned carb several times and tried another carb

Back to timing?  The pictures show that "thinger" next to the flywheel. I've adjusted this up and down and no change in RPM.  This doesn't have the points system, it's an old marine engine I guess.

Not sure what the next step is.  I like looking at this machine, but It would be nice to ride it someday.

Any input appreciated.

Mike
« Last Edit: March 20, 2020, 02:23:08 pm by struggler »

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    skidootntfa

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    Re: No Rev 1969 Merc 220E
    « Reply #1 on: March 20, 2020, 03:38:06 pm »
    What happens if you use a spray bottle and spray a mist of fuel in the carb while you are squeezing the throttle? Does it fall on it's face?
    I have two 250's and I'll try and walk through this with you.

    struggler

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    Re: No Rev 1969 Merc 220E
    « Reply #2 on: March 20, 2020, 04:53:17 pm »
    Excellent question.  It does nothing. Just keeps on running at a fairly constant rate. I shot some starter fluid in the carb last time it was running (with throttle open).


    skidootntfa

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    Re: No Rev 1969 Merc 220E
    « Reply #3 on: March 20, 2020, 07:55:14 pm »
    Are you sucking any air into the crankcase? Maybe through the primer ports on top of the cylinders. A lean situation will make them run like that. Cracked or broken primer hose?
    Are both plugs firing under load? I know you said new plugs but are they actually firing?
    Is it starving for fuel? The line that comes from the sediment bowl over the carb to the fuel pump will look good but the way they routed it from the factory will sometimes squeeze itself to limit fuel flow.

    I'm like you, I like looking at them also but they are also fun to drive.

    struggler

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    Re: No Rev 1969 Merc 220E
    « Reply #4 on: March 20, 2020, 08:59:05 pm »
    Thank you for helping. 
    1) I'll check the crankcase.  I think I've sprayed starter fluid around it before without flame. However, the primer ports! I just replaced primer line on my 250 (didn't fix that problem, but that's for another day). I better look, because I don't have a primer on it right now.

    2) Hoses all replace, but again, no primer right now.

    3) Good spark on both sides

    4) I've replaced line from the tank, the fuel filter and there seems to be plenty of gas, as it leaked all over when I pulled off the fuel pump.

    Side note.  My 250 I bought in 2007 and it was running. Ran great until a ride in Withrow MN this past New Years Day. Great, loud, fun sled.

    struggler

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    Re: No Rev 1969 Merc 220E
    « Reply #5 on: March 20, 2020, 09:22:27 pm »
    Shoot.  I was optimistic!  The primer ports have, what would you call them, stopper bolts?  I don't believe there was a primer on there. This did prompt me to go to a spare engine and take the primer line fittings off to be used later on this machine.  I noticed on the old engine that there are rubber lines on the bottom of the engine.  I wonder if it's sucking air down there?  There is some dark oil-gas mix that collects below the engine.  Hate to think I might need to pull the engine off, but maybe.


    Mr_Plow

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    Re: No Rev 1969 Merc 220E
    « Reply #6 on: March 20, 2020, 11:27:43 pm »
    Could the exhaust be plugged?
    My sled picture albums: Wild-One, '65 Arctic Cat, AMF, Others
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    struggler

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    Re: No Rev 1969 Merc 220E
    « Reply #7 on: March 21, 2020, 12:49:41 pm »
    That's a good questions. The exhaust comes out of the pipe and feels strong.  That doesn't mean there isn't a partial blockage somewhere.  I might be able to disconnect the exhaust under the seat and get a look. the tail pipe angles down.

    thanks

    Mike

    skidootntfa

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    Re: No Rev 1969 Merc 220E
    « Reply #8 on: March 21, 2020, 02:41:19 pm »
    I can tell you why the oil mess collects below the engine. When these machines were produced, Mercury found it necessary to make the exhaust manifolds rigid all the way back to the muffler connection, clamp it solid then add another 30+ inches of muffler then add another 6+ inches of tailpipe then turn it down. All the while clamping all this madness tight to the chassis. Chassis is aluminum (thank god) but it tends to flex. The weakest point on this system are the 1/4 bolts coming directly out of the cylinder fastening the manifolds to the cylinders. When the sled flexes (while riding it) those bolts snap, you then get a loud manifold leak=messy oily goo under the engine. If you intend on taking your engine out of the sled, I have figured out a remedy and a true fix for this and it's NOT the half assed flex pipe repair that Mercury came up with back in the day. More than likely you already have the flex pipe and they are leaking gooy nastiness already.
    Are you sure you don't have a fouled plug? I remember this happening to my dads 250 when it was new. It would run but would not rev up. I was a snot nosed little kid then so I don't know what the findings were.
    I can go on and on about these things. I just love them!!!
    There might be plenty of fuel with the engine not running but running might be a different story which I asked if it was starving while it is running.

    skidootntfa

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    Re: No Rev 1969 Merc 220E
    « Reply #9 on: March 21, 2020, 02:46:51 pm »
    Have you taken the recoil assembly off to clean out the mouse nest? They love it in there. That's one of the reasons these engines fail, mice get in there and build a nest. Clogs the cylinder fins and overheats and burns them down.
    If you do take the muffler off check the little outlet on the inside, the mice like it there also.

    weverat

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    Re: No Rev 1969 Merc 220E
    « Reply #10 on: March 22, 2020, 12:14:06 pm »




    Back to timing?  The pictures show that "thinger" next to the flywheel. I've adjusted this up and down and no change in RPM.  This doesn't have the points system, it's an old marine engine I guess.



    Mike

    Sounds like you have some type of electronic ignition. I would verify that those parts are working. Do you have another engine with the same parts that runs?
    « Last Edit: March 22, 2020, 12:16:59 pm by weverat »
    Man, I love junk !

    struggler

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    Re: No Rev 1969 Merc 220E
    « Reply #11 on: March 22, 2020, 01:47:10 pm »
    skidootntfa,

    Very interesting. I took a look at the older "parts" motor and sure enough, solid connectors where exhaust comes off the engine.  That makes perfect sense.  I'm fairly certain it's not the plugs. I've replaced them multiple times.  I'll try pulling gas from a separate tank directly to fuel pump and see if there is any difference.  And the nests!  Yes, I've dealt with that on my 250. Was riding a few years ago and couldn't believe the smell of burning nest, urine, whatever.  It ran hot that day and I'm lucky it survived.  This year i didn't do a good job of checking and sure enough, a nest.  Now that one is out of commission too.  Good stuff. 

    weverat,

    The electronic stuff is my weakness. Lucky to have an electrical engineer that works on these with me. we replaced the green switch box, wiring harness and everything works form spark to lights. It has a CDI system which is "powered by a flywheel mounted generating coil and a trigger could attached to the housing." I'm probably wrong, but with how easy it starts and smooth it runs, seems timing isn't horribly off. Even if off a bit, wouldn't the thing still rev up more when throttle opened?

    skidootntfa

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    Re: No Rev 1969 Merc 220E
    « Reply #12 on: March 22, 2020, 02:57:38 pm »
    Does the sled move under it's own power? You have said how it runs but does it move?

    skidootntfa

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    Re: No Rev 1969 Merc 220E
    « Reply #13 on: March 22, 2020, 03:07:28 pm »
    Did you check the reed cage?
    Your ignition seems to be working great. You went through all the components.
    You went through the carb and necessary parts.
    Seems like the exhaust is working like it should.
    Fuel doesn't seem to be getting to the cylinders like it should to give you an increase in rev's. The only thing between the carb and cylinders is the reed cage.
    Yes everybody this sled has reed cage induction just like it has CDI way before anyone else had it. OMC also had their version of CDI. Mercury's engine even ran backward when you put it in reverse. The new ski-doo's have nothing on Mercury when it comes to going back ward.  8)

    struggler

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    Re: No Rev 1969 Merc 220E
    « Reply #14 on: March 22, 2020, 05:10:27 pm »
    Reed cage?  now what is that? LOL.  i think it is the finned looking thing behind the carb.  The sled does not move.  It does not rev up. No change with any throttle action. Yes, the throttle cable is connect tight and the valve opens and closes in the carb.  So the clutch does not engage and there is no track movement.

    Thanks.