The World Famous Bull Sessions

Vintage Sleds, Vintage snowmobiles => Pure BS (Non Vintage Sled Related) => Topic started by: chris r on October 15, 2021, 12:52:28 pm

Title: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: chris r on October 15, 2021, 12:52:28 pm
Times are indeed changing. I'd rather not change, but the future will interesting either way.

https://snowgoer.com/latest-news/polaris-plus-zero-motorcycles-equals-electric-snowmobiles/28892/
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: snowracer on October 16, 2021, 09:49:05 pm
I suppose next, you are going to tell me to change my underwear. ???
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: Ski of Plenty on October 17, 2021, 06:18:06 am
Our club just had our annual hayride/chili dump on Saturday. It's always a fun day but this time it felt different. Several of us were talking about what we feel is going to happen over the next few years. Everyone agrees the industry is pricing itself out of business. These new electric sleds will be no exception. Pretty much an expensive novelty. Fewer people can afford new sleds these days. Most young people spend their money on tattoos and smart phones...they have little interest in getting cold on a snowmobile. Lack of snow, short seasons, limited use and the explosion of UTV sales has just about sealed the fate of trail riding as we have known it...it's circling the drain now. If the economy/politics continues on it's current trajectory, a lot of people are going to be lucky to keep up with their everyday living expenses...much less having money for motorized recreation of any kind.
Here in Wisconsin the consistent snow line continues to move north. Pretty much have to make the Tomahawk area to get decent snow. A lot of us feel the trail system will mostly collapse south of that, with the exception of a couple corridor trails that will connect to the north woods...if there's enough snow. Most people will have to trailer to find anywhere legal to ride. A return to more normal winters could make a big difference...but that's not likely to happen. Despite what some would have you believe, raising taxes won't make the weather change either. 
There will always be some kind of snowmobiling for the very well off. For the rest of us...smoke 'em while you got 'em...the end may be near. 
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: chris r on October 17, 2021, 12:30:46 pm
I suppose next, you are going to tell me to change my underwear. ???

Not telling you to do anything.  ;)
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: chris r on October 17, 2021, 01:46:04 pm
Our club just had our annual hayride/chili dump on Saturday. It's always a fun day but this time it felt different. Several of us were talking about what we feel is going to happen over the next few years. Everyone agrees the industry is pricing itself out of business. These new electric sleds will be no exception. Pretty much an expensive novelty. Fewer people can afford new sleds these days. Most young people spend their money on tattoos and smart phones...they have little interest in getting cold on a snowmobile. Lack of snow, short seasons, limited use and the explosion of UTV sales has just about sealed the fate of trail riding as we have known it...it's circling the drain now. If the economy/politics continues on it's current trajectory, a lot of people are going to be lucky to keep up with their everyday living expenses...much less having money for motorized recreation of any kind.


I for sure agree about the prices of stuff. My first thoughts are that the cost to manufacture electric/gas powered vehicles should be less. Based on what I know about vehicle production throughout my career.

On the young people, the same thought has been discussed here for years, yet there are young people who are into sleds, bikes, and cars. Sure some are not, no different than being not into anything but laying on their aszes, but sled sales have been good the last couple years and vintage/antique sled values have risen from what I see, at least advertised prices.
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: Ski of Plenty on October 17, 2021, 02:11:40 pm
I read the article you referenced in a different thread. The electric sleds will have a place in rental tours in low emission areas like national parks...etc. I also agree that they should be less expensive...but we all know how that goes.

I really want snowmobiling to survive. Unfortunately there are a number of factors beyond our control that dictate what's going to happen (like the weather) I base my comments regarding the young people on how many will actually find a little time to come and help with the trails. I've watched the young riders and if a tree branch falls on the trail they'll drive around it or just run it over rather than stop and take 15 seconds to throw it off the trail. I'm about a month off major back surgery and walking is recommended by my doctor. Took my first long walk last Sunday after the Packer game...Me and my dog checked out a section of trail that I hope to be signing very soon. Yep, I'll be with it to the bitter end.   
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: 70txpmr on October 17, 2021, 09:30:33 pm
I originally got into the vintage sled side of things in 2007 because I couldn't justify paying what new sleds were going for.

Plus it was a walk down memory lane grabbing some of the sleds my family had when I was a kid.

My last brand new sled was a 1995 Polaris Indy 440. Sold it after a couple brown winters around 2000. Have the same sled again, only used and cheaper  8)
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: SirSpamalot on October 18, 2021, 02:12:27 pm
Interesting. Here's a couple things on my mind:

1. A real reporter for a car magazine, not a network mouth breather,  finally cornered a big shot at Ford and asked him the question that I wished someone would ask all the EV makers: " What do you see as the big problem with EV vehicles? Without hesitation he said " Too expensive. We have to get the cost down to 30,000 dollars base price with decent content to really get the conversion going. 100 grand for a flashy EV pickup is nice for that market, but the average Joe will not buy it yet."  For me it was like "FINALLY! Somebody gets it."

2. Chasing EV sleds is great for perhaps a third of the market. Why they are not going hybrid with a lean burn 4 stroke gas back up for the true back woods riders I will never know. They already know (Yama-Cat) how to build a lighter 4 stroke. I can imagine a 500cc twin, plus a turbo, 4 stroke with EV that would give the best of both worlds. At least if the battery pack strokes out you can get home? Yea it will not be a rocket ship, but they have been building Prius for what, 20 years now? Shrink the tech, get the price at 10 grand. Hmmm? Might work.

3. I went vintage about 25 years ago out of necessity. I had three little kids who got tired of hiking through three feet of snow on Grandpa's farm to go downhill sledding. I had stopped riding by 1987, when sleds got to 4 grand a piece for the big ones. Fast forward ten years and I came across an add for two minty barn fresh Wankel 1972 Panthers in the shopper. I only wanted one. So I jumped a now defunct sled site and asked for someone to buy the other one. The Deal was done. My kids all grew up on that sled, it's still running and I sold it about 2011 to another collector who's kids love it as much as mine did. 45mph was fast enough, it went through deep stuff like a dozer and towed hand sleds and cutters for several seasons just fine. Growing up a dealers kid from that era I knew how to keep it alive for cheap. The best thing was it connected me with a fellowship of alike individuals who had a passion for this hobby.  ;D Today that fellowship has dimmed, but it's still out there. The Gee Whiz gang may have left, but the die hards are still here, and I like that crowd better. 8) We will never be a concern for the new sled makers, we don't make them much money.  As long as the greenies don't punt us all to a museum or a motorsports park or just ban us entirely, I hope we'll be OK.
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: 69CAMARO on October 19, 2021, 03:20:25 am
Very interesting read Chris. I can't say I'm looking forward to riding a EV snowmobile either. It looks like Polaris is forward thinking indeed. I actually saw a Polaris EV Ranger on the trail this year. When you have 500 plus noisy 4 wheelers go past your home on a Saturday I have to say I liked it. I'm positive that I won't go out and buy one any time soon but it was neat. For now I'll keep riding my Sportsman 570 and Indy 600. Times are changing.
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: canam2005 on October 19, 2021, 09:19:11 am
Times are indeed changing. I'd rather not change, but the future will interesting either way.

https://snowgoer.com/latest-news/polaris-plus-zero-motorcycles-equals-electric-snowmobiles/28892/ (https://snowgoer.com/latest-news/polaris-plus-zero-motorcycles-equals-electric-snowmobiles/28892/)

just an observation on how quickly things are changing, dewalt came out with a different battery tech for their tools above the current flexvolt series. I know this is not an apples to apples comparison to powersports, but this new tech is getting to the market fairly quick. " BREAKING! DeWALT's IMPOSSIBLE new battery tech will change every tool they make. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N326c8Tv3wQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N326c8Tv3wQ)
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: chris r on October 19, 2021, 08:00:23 pm
Times are indeed changing. I'd rather not change, but the future will interesting either way.

https://snowgoer.com/latest-news/polaris-plus-zero-motorcycles-equals-electric-snowmobiles/28892/ (https://snowgoer.com/latest-news/polaris-plus-zero-motorcycles-equals-electric-snowmobiles/28892/)

just an observation on how quickly things are changing, dewalt came out with a different battery tech for their tools above the current flexvolt series. I know this is not an apples to apples comparison to powersports, but this new tech is getting to the market fairly quick. " BREAKING! DeWALT's IMPOSSIBLE new battery tech will change every tool they make. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N326c8Tv3wQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N326c8Tv3wQ)

There are a lot of electric vehicles out there now and more coming into the market very quickly. Time waits for no one.
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: duallydave on October 19, 2021, 08:30:48 pm
And beyond DeWalt, there is a lot of interest in solid state batteries.
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: ski-doood on October 20, 2021, 05:43:26 am
Sorry to go off-topic some more here but we lost a lot of trees at our cabin in two recent storms and one of our regulars shows up with three brand new Milwaukee battery powered chain saws and I thought you have to be kidding me.  Well, I was shocked on how well all three worked.  I never thought I would think this but I could own one of those and maybe not miss my Stihl all that much.

THEY SOUND FUNNY THOUGH.
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: beverlynsteve on October 20, 2021, 07:18:34 pm
Stihl makes an electric chainsaw now also.
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: chris r on October 21, 2021, 12:34:44 pm
Sorry to go off-topic some more here but we lost a lot of trees at our cabin in two recent storms and one of our regulars shows up with three brand new Milwaukee battery powered chain saws and I thought you have to be kidding me.  Well, I was shocked on how well all three worked.  I never thought I would think this but I could own one of those and maybe not miss my Stihl all that much.

THEY SOUND FUNNY THOUGH.

I have two friends who've bought Milwaukee cordless chainsaws and they love them. I could use one too.
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: Just Wondering on October 21, 2021, 02:18:00 pm
Stihl makes an electric chainsaw now also.


Yes,,,,cordless saws for about 10 years or so now.  We've sold quite a few at our dealership over the years.

They also produced a 120 volt AC saw line up  about 30 years ago.  Those had the obvious limitations but for the right end user they were ideal.
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: Kingsville Doo Nut on October 22, 2021, 02:13:48 pm
I bet you'd never catch Toocheaptosmoke using a battery powered Chainsaw,  LOL 🙄
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: XCRacer440 on October 23, 2021, 12:13:53 am
I bet you'd never catch Toocheaptosmoke using a battery powered Chainsaw,  LOL 🙄

So true lol!
Wish he would make some new videos though
Back on topic
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: chris r on October 23, 2021, 10:10:42 am
I went to rent a trailer yesterday and inside the business I saw a big display of electric yard tools. No gas powered equipment at all. As we know there is and will probably continue to be new rechargeable products, but what I didn't expect to see was rechargeable zero-turn lawn mowers. Guy said the sound generated from the blades is the only sound. I didn't price them or ask many questions, but it was an eye opener.
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: slowestsled on October 23, 2021, 02:32:19 pm
The world -she is achanging, but for right now during summer peak brown outs, trees falling and grid cluster outages, texas type snufuus, we are not yet ready for all electric anything. And half the nation is cold for half the yr, batteries not so much like the cold for being efficient. We have only recently perfected EFI, and people that but little gas saving small cars drive 80 mph and kill the reason why the type car was bought, Teslas's burn half the juice just keeping the vehicle comfortable, not moving it. We are too spoiled for creator comforts to understand that some limitations are the people themselves.
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: Skier76 on October 30, 2021, 12:58:20 pm
We picked up a small Stilh trimmer that my wife uses on the shrubs and plants around the houses. Itís not big, you can use it with one hand if needed.  Darn thing has amazing battery life.  Went a long time between charges and sat for a month or so between uses. 

One of the guys in our sled club has a smaller Stihl electric saw.  It did really well during a cleanup last winter. 
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: vtg on November 06, 2021, 12:48:30 am
I went to rent a trailer yesterday and inside the business I saw a big display of electric yard tools. No gas powered equipment at all. As we know there is and will probably continue to be new rechargeable products, but what I didn't expect to see was rechargeable zero-turn lawn mowers. Guy said the sound generated from the blades is the only sound. I didn't price them or ask many questions, but it was an eye opener.

Electric riding lawn mowers aren't a new concept. John Deere manufactured and sold their E90 electric rechargeable riding lawn mower from 1972-74. An uncle of mine had one back then and as a ten year old, I was always eager to mow his lawn with it every time we visited him in the summer. And as I recall, it would cover quite a large area on one charge. I had a hard time finding any information about it on the net but I did find one youtube video

 

https://youtu.be/2y5c3RUMpqA (https://youtu.be/2y5c3RUMpqA)
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: chris r on November 07, 2021, 11:52:48 am
I went to rent a trailer yesterday and inside the business I saw a big display of electric yard tools. No gas powered equipment at all. As we know there is and will probably continue to be new rechargeable products, but what I didn't expect to see was rechargeable zero-turn lawn mowers. Guy said the sound generated from the blades is the only sound. I didn't price them or ask many questions, but it was an eye opener.

Electric riding lawn mowers aren't a new concept. John Deere manufactured and sold their E90 electric rechargeable riding lawn mower from 1972-74. An uncle of mine had one back then and as a ten year old, I was always eager to mow his lawn with it every time we visited him in the summer. And as I recall, it would cover quite a large area on one charge. I had a hard time finding any information about it on the net but I did find one youtube video

 

https://youtu.be/2y5c3RUMpqA (https://youtu.be/2y5c3RUMpqA)

That's actually pretty cool. I haven't seen one of those, but was in high school at that time so I wasn't looking at lawn mowers.  ;)

Did this type mower have the torque that we see on electric stuff today? The lawn he was cutting wasn't too deep. I'd think for a nice size subdivision lot it would work out good.
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: PolCat on November 08, 2021, 12:30:15 am
I went to rent a trailer yesterday and inside the business I saw a big display of electric yard tools. No gas powered equipment at all. As we know there is and will probably continue to be new rechargeable products, but what I didn't expect to see was rechargeable zero-turn lawn mowers. Guy said the sound generated from the blades is the only sound. I didn't price them or ask many questions, but it was an eye opener.
When I bought my new Gravely this spring they had a electric one on the floor. Dealer said it would be going back as no one was even looking at it. After he said the price I said no way. Think it was like 29k.
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: canam2005 on November 08, 2021, 08:39:46 am
those new ones a really $$$$.. but most of them seem targeted towards the commercial use. They where very tight lipped at the expo all did was drop small hints on what's to coming out in the next 3 yrs other than what was up on the displays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAt_G8NdEe8&t=6s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAt_G8NdEe8&t=6s)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFi3QpZ3bIE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFi3QpZ3bIE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qTbKkWNFvI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qTbKkWNFvI)
then in December the electric ranger suppose to be shown off, doesn't say which day in Dec.
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: chris r on November 08, 2021, 12:22:45 pm
I went to rent a trailer yesterday and inside the business I saw a big display of electric yard tools. No gas powered equipment at all. As we know there is and will probably continue to be new rechargeable products, but what I didn't expect to see was rechargeable zero-turn lawn mowers. Guy said the sound generated from the blades is the only sound. I didn't price them or ask many questions, but it was an eye opener.
When I bought my new Gravely this spring they had a electric one on the floor. Dealer said it would be going back as no one was even looking at it. After he said the price I said no way. Think it was like 29k.

29 LARGE!

I could be thinking wrong, but for manufacturing it seems like it would cost less to build, at least for cars or trucks.
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: chris r on November 08, 2021, 12:31:40 pm
those new ones a really $$$$.. but most of them seem targeted towards the commercial use. They where very tight lipped at the expo all did was drop small hints on what's to coming out in the next 3 yrs other than what was up on the displays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAt_G8NdEe8&t=6s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAt_G8NdEe8&t=6s)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFi3QpZ3bIE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFi3QpZ3bIE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qTbKkWNFvI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qTbKkWNFvI)
then in December the electric ranger suppose to be shown off, doesn't say which day in Dec.

The 2nd video was pretty good. Liked all the old stuff for sure. The guy talking said 10mph mowing so the commercial guys will like it for sure. But, my JD 734 will mow 11mph, according to the salesnerd that sold it to me. I don't need that so it wasn't part of my decision to purchase.
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: Jeff99 on November 08, 2021, 12:44:10 pm
Here is a 2021 electric Gravely  :o
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: Garage Philosopher on November 08, 2021, 03:36:01 pm
If you don't like the price, you weren't the person being marketed to... and maybe that is the actual offence to you?
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: Jeff99 on November 08, 2021, 03:42:44 pm
If you don't like the price, you weren't the person being marketed to... and maybe that is the actual offence to you?

Who are you aiming your comment to? Just posting the price for people to see, you donít think itís crazy it cost the same as a car?
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: snowracer on November 08, 2021, 10:54:24 pm
Guess I would just lay some astro turf down instead of laying that much cash out.
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: chris r on November 09, 2021, 12:05:02 pm
If you don't like the price, you weren't the person being marketed to... and maybe that is the actual offence to you?

Hey stranger. Hadn't seen you this summer.
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: Garage Philosopher on November 09, 2021, 03:59:52 pm
Seems I missed all the fun... had a busy summer slinging coffee and messing with warm weather toys. Got my first ever real Mopar, '66 Dart GT, 273 auto and pwr st, factory air and tint. Southern paint burn and high rust, looks like an over ripe banana, but runs sweet and drives... and it was really cheap.
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: chris r on November 09, 2021, 05:23:26 pm
Seems I missed all the fun... had a busy summer slinging coffee and messing with warm weather toys. Got my first ever real Mopar, '66 Dart GT, 273 auto and pwr st, factory air and tint. Southern paint burn and high rust, looks like an over ripe banana, but runs sweet and drives... and it was really cheap.

Sounds like a fun car. I hadn't seen your Kaiser Frazier at the bakery when heading to the yacht blub.  :)
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: Garage Philosopher on November 09, 2021, 06:48:28 pm
At some point, I was probably at the water tower when you drove by...
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: PZ 1 on November 11, 2021, 01:35:00 am

A new electric snow bike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AFuTPXXaak&t=2s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AFuTPXXaak&t=2s)
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: chris r on November 11, 2021, 11:24:54 am

A new electric snow bike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AFuTPXXaak&t=2s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AFuTPXXaak&t=2s)

I'm not quite sure what to make of that. Might be fun I guess, but I'm sure not feeling the urge to have one.  ;)
Title: Re: Polaris / Zero hybrid sleds.
Post by: derwood on November 11, 2021, 01:01:37 pm
Probabl

A new electric snow bike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AFuTPXXaak&t=2s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AFuTPXXaak&t=2s)

I'm not quite sure what to make of that. Might be fun I guess, but I'm sure not feeling the urge to have one.  ;)

Probably made for some the countries that snowmobiles are illegal in. I know that there are a few anyways.
Derwood