World Series

[cth382]

Not to mention 100 index racers with trail studs

[Vintagesleds.com]

[Riley7]

First of all, at least for the Series, there won't be any trail studs allowed on the ice drag track.  In fact, I can't remember the last time somebody showed up at a serious ice race with trails studs, and was allowed to race.  Furthermore, the trail stud racer would be silly to try and run index, as the lack of traction would never allow for consistent e.t.'s.

As to the tracks getting chewed up more today at the Series than 20 years ago, that's not really accurate.  Sure, the big sleds today make BIG power, but there aren't that many of them.  I don't think there were 10 total "Big" sleds at the Series this year.  Compare that to the Woody's Challenge alone back in the day, when you'd have 40 entries in the 800 c.c. mod class, each with 220 H.P.  If you want to compare total HP going down a track over a given race weekend, I'd venture to say you had 4 times the amount back in the 90's compared to today.  I've been at the past two Series, as well as most of them over the past 20 years, and the track's in Oconto Falls the past couple of years have shown relatively little wear and tear compared to the 1990's.

[Racer #9]

How many late model sled were at the Series this year and how many overall entries did they get?

[MiModRacer]

Ok Riley,  Last time I was at a WS at Ocono Falls racing the ice held up good.  It was 15 below Zero both days.  In that weather yea its not going to be an issue Now fast Forward about 8 Yrs. Galyord WS yr 2. Weather was shaky, Sundays Ice was terrible, most sleds 2/10 off in et... It was a spin fest ... What a joke of a WORLD SERIES race for those who spend over a grand hanging there for 3 days to race on it below the Golden Children  classes.  If you recall all Saturday was reserved for 3 big cc shoot out classes .... I walked out on the line Sunday Morning & just shook my head, it was obvious  & I felt terrible for everybody, what a waste of time & effort it would be for so many.  You take it back 20 yrs as your reference & What was different?   Weather was much cooler & Saturday started out with Stock start to finish , then Improved Stock start to finish, Then PS & Mods & carried over to Sunday to finish those classes & finally it was the Woodys Shoot out at the end. The Weather and who/what gets on the track before you can make all the difference in the world as to what type of starting line & down track ice you will have left.  My comment was a sensible alert if your building a dedicated index sled, you know the program your pushing for all of us below what by your own announcement and apparent approval is the future 10 heads up classes & the rest being index.   I have heard you announce & yea thats your forte in this sport & Oh yea your a decent Promoter too... Building , racing & understanding the fall out of rules changes on a sled, not so much and it shows...

[Tmkruger77]

Racer #9, I heard they had around a 138 entries total. The starting line was a non issue all weekend. It was re shaved for the start of Sundays race and looked great. I remember back in Kalkaska Michigan on a man made ice on land track, we were starting out of a 12" hole  for the Woody's challenge. That is the worst starting line we ever had, but we adjusted for it as did others. On Sunday at the end of the day I was prepping the track for Monty Krousch in open mod 800 and 1000, the ice was holding up very well.

[HOOTS]

 Tony, I really kind of like the sounds of the index racing. Instead of debating the wgt. rule or adding Heavy classes so the same sleds still win but with a heavier driver, throw in some index classes. Let everyone have a chance at a win when there are alot more variables to it then having the fastest sled. Lot of guys that race work every day instead of being able to spend the day on a test track tuning their sleds to perfection and also are heavy, could drive their own sleds and maybe win a class. Nobody has to weigh in or add weight to their sleds, just be consistant. 

[Edge882]

So if the track doesn't hold up....so what?  You're all dealing with the same thing, running index or running cc/weight classes....who cares?  Run your normal class and if you want to try index, run that too! 
It doesn't sound to me like there are standard classes being eliminated, right? 
Nobody wants to drive 12 hours to a track to find out there was only one other 340 mod stock machine that showed up.  Why not enter an index class with 15 entries?  At least you'd get to compete.  I do think all the sanctioning bodies need to consider this.   

[nitrofa340]

  Why is there actually any need to run the sled for 660 ft when index racing? If I am understanding this "index racing" concept correctly,....why not just set up the timers at the start line and race until the 60 ft line,..... and then shut 'em down?. All index racing is,..at its best,..is a test of reaction time. Everyone knows after the 60 ft timer most sleds will ET within .02 of a second in 500 ft , run after run,...after run after run. So the only true variable in index racing IS the reaction time.  For all practical purpose the ONLY varibles affecting the TOTAL TIME on each pass occurrs between a combination of the reaction and 60ft times, the split time usually remains a constant. No need to build a full length race track to have a 60 ft race/competition. I witnessed index racing at one of the major grass vintage grass races a few years back, and all I can say is "wow",... as most spectators and many racers alike left long before that HOUR LONG abortion finally came to a conclusion. There is no possible way any spectator could understand what is going on, not when you have a 2001 SRX 700,...a '74 El Tigre 340 and a 2010 Yamaha quad four wheeler and a 1987 Kawasaki 3 wheeler all lined up on the start line with a full 4 seconds of staggered start time between them. Just WHAT is the point of index racing? I think the name "index" is misleading, as a better name for this class would be the "Reaction Time" class.

[merc1]

dale you don't get it.there is no staggered starts in index racing only heads up racing.sounds to me what you are referring to is bracket racing.and your right boring!!!!

[nitrofa340]

dale you don't get it.there is no staggered starts in index racing only heads up racing.sounds to me what you are referring to is bracket racing.and your right boring!!!!

  Troy you are right,.....Im confusing bracket racing with index racing. I stand corrected.

[Advance78]

I'll admit index racing has some appeal and may be one solution for a lack of heads up class racers...but any kind of drag racing that may involve leaving up on the throttle to avoid losing still sounds like bracket racing. I guess it does solve a lot of problems involved with teching sleds afterwards. A thought occurs to me however...in these days of electronic technology what's the chance of someone coming up with a GPS device/display on their sled that would allow them to potentially enter a far superior sled in slower index classes and be able "pedal" it as needed to win and just keep jumping up? They could win multiple classes with the same sled. A walk through the pits at the 'Series quickly demonstrates that people with lots of money have vast resources...and will try darn near anything to win.

[Edge882]

I'll admit index racing has some appeal and may be one solution for a lack of heads up class racers...but any kind of drag racing that may involve leaving up on the throttle to avoid losing still sounds like bracket racing. I guess it does solve a lot of problems involved with teching sleds afterwards. A thought occurs to me however...in these days of electronic technology what's the chance of someone coming up with a GPS device/display on their sled that would allow them to potentially enter a far superior sled in slower index classes and be able "pedal" it as needed to win and just keep jumping up? They could win multiple classes with the same sled. A walk through the pits at the 'Series quickly demonstrates that people with lots of money have vast resources...and will try darn near anything to win.

That's simple.  Make electronic pedalling against the rules.  If my sled runs 6.20's all day, I wouldn't enter a 6.50 class....BUT, if I'm in, say a 6.20 index class and I cut a perfect light, I'm looking over at 550' and if I'm way ahead I'd let out to risk a break out.  It's the risk you take.  It makes it important for the driver to be skilled, not just have the most horsepower.

[YamahaDoo]

I'll admit index racing has some appeal and may be one solution for a lack of heads up class racers...but any kind of drag racing that may involve leaving up on the throttle to avoid losing still sounds like bracket racing. I guess it does solve a lot of problems involved with teching sleds afterwards. A thought occurs to me however...in these days of electronic technology what's the chance of someone coming up with a GPS device/display on their sled that would allow them to potentially enter a far superior sled in slower index classes and be able "pedal" it as needed to win and just keep jumping up? They could win multiple classes with the same sled. A walk through the pits at the 'Series quickly demonstrates that people with lots of money have vast resources...and will try darn near anything to win.

Index classes allow some larger drivers a place to race with certain sleds that would not compete because of the weight. It also gives people several classes to run just by allowing different drivers weighing more or less.  You could have a light weight race one class and heavy driver race a slower index. I have also seen guys detune to run slower class then put their best clutching in for the faster class.

As for electronic technology if would be extremely difficult to do anyting with GPS. You would have to tie it into ignition, throttle and brake. As for a driver looking down to try to determine where their are on the track compaired to time the race would be over.  So the chance of someone coming up with something is slim at best.

[slowestsled]

Racers are far more industrious than "YOU" know,we have sand bagged for yrs,put one 340 jug on a 440 engine,put different engines in altered stock chassis,I personally ported engines for a distributor for stock classes and saw them run the next weekend. Index classes should not care about motivation or size of any component,just driver's ability to not break out,up still win. Absolutely is a sort of bracket race. There was a pit man standing next to a blue sled many times at World Series events with a long coat,next to the blond driver,right up to the moment she left the line,had his arm out reached for some "UNKNOWN " reason next to the air box,hood area !!!!!! Ask about plastic explosive make up compounds that can make pistons disappear,,rubber gloves for tech guys,feeling woozie the Mondays after. Nascar engines blew up yrs. ago with Nitrous bottles in the oil pan,no end to what we do and will do. Most racers go to win,period and winning certainly is more fun. the hammock is looking better all the time!