What's the big deal with rider forward?

[y2grey]

For the back country steep and deep tree rides I ride an old 800 MOD SKI-DOO with a 151x16 track 2 inch paddles. The sled has a boss seat, slightly higher than stock and adjustable risers. This sled is all about function it is built to be ridden standing up. You can ride it on the trails but it gets hard on the shoulders with the bar position. For long distance stuff we have 2 Adventure Sleds one is based of an RX-1 and one an Apex Attak without going into a lot of details both the sleds ride high with "APEX STYLE" seats, you can get your feet under you or stretch out in the traditional sense. I never get tired riding these sleds unless I have to dig one out. The position is a good compromise.

[Vintagesleds.com]

[oldtimerf7]

Stand up riding is fun if the sled is set up for you. I used to ride my F7 like that some times just to stretch and let my butt regain a little feeling. That narrow seat got uncomfortable after about 150 miles.

[vmax-540]

Riding these new rider forward sleds is like riding my fathers old 1970 Moto Ski Zepher!!!!!!! I haven't ridden any of these that I can honestly say I liked. I had a 06 Ski Doo rev chassis  and I couldn't go more then 10-12 miles with out having to get off. I sold it and went back to a 02 Legend and it was the best thing I ever did. These rider forward sled maybe liked by some people but there are just as many people out there that hate them. I know it's all about money but these manufactories need to have something other then rider forward for people that prefer the sit down sleds.

[WrenchDeere]

Isn't Rider Forward sort of like an old Mid - Mount sled with lots of suspension and a short windshield?

[papolcat]

I have rode a 2012 polaris pro R800 and was pleased but not blown away but I built a custom 1999 XC 700 with custom seat in a raised forward position and raised the handle bars 9 inches. Sled also has 136 1.25 track I have about  $1500.00 invested. Sled handles and rides amazingly. Swapped with a buddy of mines 02 600 edge for about 30 miles and will never go back. rode 172 miles 3-7-15

[340TNT]

ask Arctic Cat that one ...

[Throttle Junkie35]

 I find on high milage (200+) days im a bit sore no matter what. Rider forward or conventional. The difference is that Im sore in different places. The seats on the newer sleds are too dang firm for a guy like me at around 180lbs. I tell ya, im not real fond of throw'n around 11-12 feet of metal either. Its just too much imo for the riding I do that is 99% groomed trail. Being that Im a skosh under 6' tall, Im not a fan of a sled that has handle bars at my shoulder level. I will be a conventional guy for a very long time.
 I can see the advantages of the rider forward for older or bigger guys (less knee bending etc..)and I think the manufactures went back to thinking that all riders are 6'2" 350-400 lbs again with some of the set ups Ive been on. Guys like me who arent short, but arent exactly a giant get the shaft. 
 Give me a plush seat, (90's Cat or yami) and something that can really corner and I'm happy. 

[Joe Rainville]

From 1994-2000 my only rides were vintage John Deere sleds.  Notice on the green machine below, the riders knee's are up quite high.  To lower your knee, you have to put your foot behind or way in front of you.



But in 1998 I purchased a new Polaris Sport 400L ATV, and I could ride that thing all day, and not be nearly as sore as after an hour on the Deere sleds.  My first new sled was a 99 Cat Z-440 Sno Pro, and while it was a great sled and a fun racer, it was pretty conventional.  I remember parking my Polaris next to it and asking my buddies "why don't they built sleds like this" meaning a more upright seating position with your knee below your hip, and your back straight.

If all you do is sit or ride at moderate speeds, knee position doesn't matter as much.  But, if your on rough trails, moguls or transition from siting to standing a lot, a low knee positions matters.  It's far easier to stand from a sitting position where your knee is below the hip, with your upper leg pointing slightly down instead of slight up as it would be on vintage sleds.

My 2002 Cat Z-440 SP had about the same layout as the 99, but they moved the steering and gas tank a few inches forward.  The bars were also raised to give the rider better leverage.  Then in 2002 Ski-Doo released 16 or so open mod racers that were basically REV prototypes, rider forward had hit the main stream.





My first "rider forward" sled was my 2005 Cat 440 Sno Pro.  I was in lousy shape that year due to an accident in the spring of 04, (I got a girlfriend), and had little gym time before the season.  But that sled, with it's easy to transition ergo's made me a much better racer, air shocks on the front damped the shock loads to my wrists on hard landings.  Had my best year ever on the sled, despite not hitting the gym until the start of the season.



Even sitting casually on my 09 Cat 600, you can see difference in rider forward.  This sled is a hard core cross country racer, but is so comfortable, with a long, flat, high mounted seat that even Cari and I can ride 2-up without issue.

So is it for everyone?  Uhh, no.  But I find the rider forward way more comfortable for riding, or racing.

-Joe Rainville

[chris r]

There's more to it than it just looking cool. I usually ride standing up and I was riding watercraft that way all my life because it lowers the center of gravity (where your weight enters the machine goes to the footwells rather than the seat).

Well said. It's all about the math.

One thing about riding standing up also is it takes some of the strain off the lower back. At least for me. Nearly impossible to stand up on the conventional sleds for more than a short run. Having an option to stand up for a few seconds/minutes is great when you're on the go. I find I don't stop on the trail near as much as I used to with the Extra-10, Extra-12, Edge skid or the Edge M-10. I still have these machines.

[65tomcat]

Have a '13 Arctic Cat XF 1100 turbo. After this trip I am on in Maine right now, it will have about 6400 miles on it. Took me awhile, but it's finally dialed in. Unlike the ZR's, and I've had 3, (still have the '02 600 cross country),  which performed handling wise great out of the box, these require work for that same ZR handling. Ended up with adjustments and finally a set of C&A RZ Razor skis, 7.5 inch stud boy shapers, and now have a sled that handles better than any ZR I have ever owned, with a 100% better rear suspension.  No comparison and I'll never turn back. With the mileage we ride rider forward is the ticket. Yesterday we ran 300 miles and can't imagine running that many in one day on any of my ZR's, would have been pretty beat up!

[340TNT]

If I see ONE more short track sled with 10" risers and the driving it is standing up .....   

 I'm going to SMASH him off the trail with my élan

[Satans Twister]

It's just like when a new version of windows comes out! Change takes getting used to and once you do you'll never go back. I still ride my vintages for fun. For piling on the miles there's no comparison. Out of the box they're set up for the average trail cruiser, plush ride, no darting. Change some settings, skis and these things are slot cars.

Standing up is a preference, I guess. I still sit 99% of the time and only briefly stand for that "oh crap" bump or to get ready for a rough bridge. No need to slow down, she'll take on nasties that would buckle a conventional sled.

The pic is the east side of grand island in Munising last weekend. Mines the black xrs in the back.

[chris r]

If I see ONE more short track sled with 10" risers and the driving it is standing up .....   

 I'm going to SMASH him off the trail with my élan

That's pretty funny.    You might want to get a good look at the guy first though.   

[GHenry]

..... I suppose I'll have one some day .........................

Question -

Does owning one also require that you have a flat bill Rockstar hat too? (man how I hate flatbills)

[HYDRAULICYAM]

Everything I have is old style ... Farm tractors started out with the seat hanging over the draw bar ,,, then moved up over the
rear axle ..... when companies moved the seat even further ahead , the argument was ,,, when you ran over a big lump , the rear
axle people said you just get one bump... the middle seat people said you got half as much bump but twice ....
... so on that theory , old sled with leaf up front never did carry enough weight transfer to steer and the operator really was
suspended by the track alone ... The pre forward sleds seem to have applied weight to the skis by taking away from the track,,,
and the forward sleds can add more weight transfer back to the track as the operator can move forward to add to the steering
as needed....   I wish I could get ahead on my old 93 pogo VK Yam.... all it does is push unless hard pack... When I set ski track, I
often have to let off the throttle and dive forward to make the outside ski bite to make a corner..
..
I have sat (perched) on some newer sleds and the sitting position feels comfortable , BUT the narrow top seat up my butt crack
feels a bit too personal to me ... I would want a slightly lower seat with a flatter top as I won't be swinging my weight that often..
...
Ron