Squeaky Wheel.............Vintage use in NY

[clem79]

Email sent. Tried to keep it short. Thanks for helping everyone out.

[raiderfan]

CAT, I sent one your way. 

[70TNT]

HEY BUFF SEND YA AN EMAIL. HOPE SOMETHING COMES OUT OF YOUR MEETING

[Fatcat]

Hey BK,
  Sent you a email. Thanks for all the hard work.
                                                             Fatcat

[buffalokat]

   Thanks  Guys,    These letters will be taken to the June 6th meeting.   Some good ideas to ad,all great letters that show the passion of these men(no gals yet).    If you are a member of NYSSA, Please log to the bulletin board and look at threads 307 & the Vintage posts, They make it sound as if this my agenda,Please feel free to tell them Im not alone.  Yes,this is a numbers game,they are asking me for facts they cant provide !    As far as I know this is as far as this has ever been,we need to be a major part of vintage snowmobile history in NY,  ALL OF US !    BK



                            Tell  every vintage sledder you know,get those emails in!   The more I have,better the impact !

[buffalokat]

  This is what WE are up against, I dont even want to answer this now,cuz I think I would flip !!


May 30, 2009 12:07 pm

BK... I hope you are coming fully prepared with actual numbers on the vintage registrations and what the reduced fee will do to the overall income for clubs due to such a fee reduction? I am all for a vintage registration at a reduction from the current fee structure. BUT... the way I understand it, there is no real true way of using factual numbers to show a case either way. If you have those numbers, I'd love to see them and sure hope that it isn't going to take a half a million dollars OR MORE out of the OPRHP Trail Fund, as has been implied to us. Thanks in advance for your diligence and effort on this subject. NYSSA needs more like you that are truly familiar with the cause they represent to bring out the facts to us that are not all that knowledgeable about them.jrolf
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[buffalokat]

 Sat May 30, 2009 8:00 pm

jrolf, I will bring info from 7 states that have had no ill affect from a reduced fee for vintage use. We are not the only broke state. As far as numbers,well nothing from nothing is nothing. A small fee is better than no fee. What I have in mind as found nowhere else is a vintage rider must belong to a club to help prevent any hardship to any club or trail fund or NYSSA . I feel with all of the other states vintage provisions we could end up with the best and most fair vintage use program on snow.
If classic cars can have a reduced fee,while our everyday drivers fees increase,Im going to do my best Classic sleds.

[buffalokat]

BK,
FYI... I am for a reduced rate for vintage as well as for Sportsman who only use their sleds to access hunting areas or ice fishing. But from the estimates that I have heard and seen, NYSSA would have to sponsor a bill that would take upwords of a million dollars from the Trail Fund that feeds it's members just from the vintage class sleds. Just as in any budget process negotiations, both sides will need to show their hands and agree to concessions to pass a controversial bill. If you can bring some credible numbers in and agree with Brett above about still being a club member, I a sure something would become of it. But a good portion of the people here that are involved heavily in their own clubs will obviously not be fully willing to cut their own incomes to provide a reduction to those that do not want to support the clubs.

When anyone is doing research on the vintage sled numbers, 2 questions should be asked IMO:
1) do you ride on trails with your vintage sled and if so, how many miles and times/year?
2) do you also register a current model sled in addition to your vintage one(s)?

So, how many would be fully affected if they had other sleds that they registered anyhow? That category is higher than the ones with ONLY Vintage sleds, I'd be willing to bet. So they already join a club and would be saving on those few additional sled reggies only, and I support that 110%. If the fee was $15.00 a year in NY (remember, NY gets snow!!), would that be enough of a reduction from the current fee or would a majority of the vintage owners be willing to go to $20.00 or $25.00/year? And what's the difference between my 2004 sled that I register, insure, prep, and buy an Old Forge permit for year after year for my daughter who only rides about 300 miles a year? Should we be advocating for a reduction for the lower miles sleds as well??jrolf
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[buffalokat]

The Reply...............jrolf, How in the world could I provide such info,when with all the power of NYSSA,lobbyists,layers and a BOD have yet to provide ? Foil report ? It was said here the records are purged after a few yrs.
When given a chance to see some facts you have,then I can proceed with DOT of which Im already in contact with through public affairs. Then we can get passed the sky is falling and get down to the facts.
When you mention other states,Yes I do too. I only use them to show it is doable,they have clubs,trails and money troubles as we do. Then to look at the verbage to pick the best of each to get our language down. Passed threads said that,"What is vintage" these other states have figured it out.
I mean cant ya give a guy a chance to show some of our ideas,maybe 30yrs rather than 25. Yes my idea to belong to a club,not required anywhere else. Perhapes just leaf spring sleds,not IFS. No wonder this has never gone anywhere,Yikes ! BK

[covert]

IMO these NYSSA guys just don't get it.  Even when the reg fee was up to $45 a year I registered two sleds every year, whether I rode them or not.  There were several years I paid my fees and put less than 100 miles on one and 0 miles on the other.  I basically put no wear on the trails for my trail fee.  Once they got the fee raised to $70- $100 I quit trail riding; they used to get $90 a year from me at no cost (i.e. I realize they were still maintaining trails but I wasn't using them, hence $90 free), now they get nothing.  I know a few people who got out of the sport altogether for the same reason.  Their own stats show a decrease in registrations starting around the time of the increase in fees.  With a reduced vintage fee I'd reg one or two and maybe make a couple mile loop around the house now and again.

[vmax-540]

  This all sounds good ,but I heard from an inside source that this will only be for SINGLE cylinder sleds only,and not for any kind of old muscle sleds, is this true? I will only support this if it is for ALL vintage sleds no matter how much HP or cylinders that they have..It doesn't matter if it is an Elan or a Vmax we still put as much money and hard work into them that we are not going to tair up the trails like I heard that some of the vintage guys were lobbying for at the state meeting!!

[buffalokat]

vmax-540 , Truth !  Man I wish I had something for Ya !   No,I would never go for a single cyl sled option,we need to get our foot in the door,no vintage owners speaking up,no way  this will happen.     

[Brettm57]

Buffalocat, I hope I didn't do more harm than good posting my message on the NYSSA site.  I wanted to show that you're not alone when it comes to a vintage registration in NY.  I've taken some heat on that site in the past for criticizing NYSSA.  Oh well!  I could write a two-page post on what I've seen wrong with NYSSA.  Thanks again for all you're doing.  Maybe I'll see you in a couple of weeks? ::) 

[buffalokat]

          Brett,   I  thank you for your post on NYSSA,it cant be just me yappin!   They need to see a group of people working towards a goal.    I dont care if people are against it, that creates debate.    Wish I had more of a legal background,so I knew how to look up past trials and outcomes,you know (Smith vs NYSSA). 
            Whats in 2 weeks ?      Later bud

[Brettm57]

You were asking on my other post about the drag/swap/show in Ulysses, PA on June 13.  Sure hope you come down, it would be nice to meet you!